Wednesday, February 25, 2009
the proof is in the pudding
i've just stumbled onto quite an interesting quote from the book of Ecclesiastes in the Talmud, the Old Testament:
Ecclesiastes 3-19-21, " For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast; for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"
Wikipedia (the closest thing i'll ever have to a god) says, "according to the Talmud, however, the point of Qohelet (the narrator of the book) is to state that all is futile under the sun. One should therefore ignore physical pleasures and pul all one's efforts towards that which is above the sun. This is summed up in the second to last verse: "The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God, and keep his commandments; that is the whole duty of everyone."
hrmm... "all has been heard." my interpretation? there is no need to search farther than a simple set of morals, the ten commandments in this case, because that is the be all, end all way to lead a moral life. don't search for more meaning, be satisfied in knowing the reason to live a moral life is the moral life itself. alright, i see this is starting to get a bit preachy, i'll have to change up the format somehow.
-Jake
i got bored of the last stream of threads, so here's this:
my point with that last thread is, basically, there is no purpose for human civilization, so we should stop looking and focus on not destroying one another and things will probably be a lot better off. also to do this we have to realize the human experience is different for everyone because everyone looks through their own lens of "self" and is thus viewing the world subjectively.
but recently it occurred to me that, regardless of whether or not humanity has a purpose, humanity is acting like it does, and this is why we are where we are today. mankind, in searching for a purpose, gave itself a purpose. now, depending on what you believe that purpose is (and it's different for everyone except those who don't believe there is one) it all boils down to the same sentiment: humans are better than everything around them, so they must conquer it and make it has good as they are. whether by harnessing fire to allow us to see what humans in the natural world may never have seen, or by wiping out an entire ecosystem (one that may have even include humans who don't buy into this sentiment of supereriority), to harvest the natural earth so we can create an unnatural, and in our minds a better, end product. the fact is we live our lives as though we really are gods gift to the earth. even those of us who don't believe in god.
this is the false prophecy of our society. reasonable people of today may not buy into the idea that "humans are better than everything around them and this shit called nature needs to be altered for the better, and i'm just the being to do it!" in such blunt terms, but our society still runs on this notion because it is this notion that has fueled our society since it's conception in the mind of man. we have all been going about our lives on our planet with this notion ingrained into the very heart of us.
so, one might ask, "if this is the very nature of our civilization as we know it, it can't be all bad, right? i mean, sure, there has been evil because of man, but there has also been great good, right? doesn't the good of humanity shine through the veil of evil deeds, so that we may justify ourselves in the continuance of this lifestyle?"
this begs the question: who and what benefits from the lifestyle our current human civilization? with it's geneva convention and it's industry standards and nuclear silos and brand marketing and product wars and stocks and bonds and domesticating pets and exterminating pests and raising livestock for slaughter and ozone depletion and melting ice caps and race wars and religious persecution and the constant study of it all, it seems pretty obvious, so obvious that i want to ask a different question altogether:
does any other being benefit in any way shape or form from the current human civilization? and if not, how many beings are hurt by it, and how much are they hurt? how much are we hurting ourselves without knowing it because we are in love with the idea that we are above the laws of nature, that we do not need it to survive because we are the greatest beings that we have ever known?
so, on a somewhat related note, i've posted a question of the possibility of global morality in harmony with nature on thinkatheist.com, here's the link if anyone cares to read and respond to my ramblings:
www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/ok-so-we-reject-the-idea-of-a
respond either here or on thinkatheist, but IF YOU ARE READING THIS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PROVIDE FEEDBACK, CRITICISM OR COMMENTS OF ANY KIND, i am always in need of other perspectives and if you have anything to say on this topic it would be a tragedy if it was left unsaid.
damn, i have got to stop doing this at five in the fucking morning. anyway, thanks for considering my side of things.
Thursday, February 19, 2009
looking at things objectively and the meaning of life pt. 3
I don’t think it should be enough for you either. But therein lies the rub. If we look beyond pure faith in something, if we look for validity in proof in purpose of existence, we look for the most impossible, intangible, inconceivable notion that has ever graced our thoughts. it is the coup de grace of all philosophical speculation, scientists work tirelessly to know all there is to know with this eventual goal (I think, it’s either that or they’re trying to make a super hot babe like in Weird Science) and well, there is that whole religion thing again. and here is when things get a little mean (I really can’t continue without insulting peoples beliefs, which I hate doing and one of the reasons I rarely care to argue), but religion is at fault for this major dilemma between faith and reason when it comes to the ultimate question.
Religion (once you take away the smoke and mirrors) is what people who wanted to know all of these questions GUESSTIMATED. They looked at the sun and said “I wonder” and looked at the earth and then themselves and asked again, but for all their brilliant mental capacities they didn’t have any answers. But that human predicament that permeates most everything we do, our need to explore, to achieve, to find answers. that human curiosity, because there was no way to reasonably look for these answers, drove those people to do what many of us do when we feel the need to urgently explain something we have no idea about: they made some shit up.
Now I’m not saying that religions are just a bunch of shit people made up. What I’m saying is religion is created from and with the ideas of morality, existence, the non-physical and mortality that have been (depending on the religion) widely debated, amended and restructured to be the most feasible, relevant and easily acceptable dogma of the time. It just so happens that every scrap of opinion and information that these religions were based upon came from a bunch of shit some people made up about otherworldly entities and beings with powers and afterlifes and bad ones and good ones and other such nonsense, because they couldn’t explain it.
Humanity, for some reason, cried out for the answer to existence, and when no one answered us, we looked toward ourselves for the answers. the problem is, we stopped seriously asking these questions as individuals because a bunch of people thousands of years ago put their guesstimations on paper, and they were then published as the a truth from beyond this world. It’s all because of what? Laziness? A guy wants to know why but because he doesn’t have the means to find out himself, he will create an answer and truly believe in that fabrication because his mind craves a solution, and simply making one up is easier than constantly being overwhelmed with the impossibility of it all.
Religion (once you take away the smoke and mirrors) is what people who wanted to know all of these questions GUESSTIMATED. They looked at the sun and said “I wonder” and looked at the earth and then themselves and asked again, but for all their brilliant mental capacities they didn’t have any answers. But that human predicament that permeates most everything we do, our need to explore, to achieve, to find answers. that human curiosity, because there was no way to reasonably look for these answers, drove those people to do what many of us do when we feel the need to urgently explain something we have no idea about: they made some shit up.
Now I’m not saying that religions are just a bunch of shit people made up. What I’m saying is religion is created from and with the ideas of morality, existence, the non-physical and mortality that have been (depending on the religion) widely debated, amended and restructured to be the most feasible, relevant and easily acceptable dogma of the time. It just so happens that every scrap of opinion and information that these religions were based upon came from a bunch of shit some people made up about otherworldly entities and beings with powers and afterlifes and bad ones and good ones and other such nonsense, because they couldn’t explain it.
Humanity, for some reason, cried out for the answer to existence, and when no one answered us, we looked toward ourselves for the answers. the problem is, we stopped seriously asking these questions as individuals because a bunch of people thousands of years ago put their guesstimations on paper, and they were then published as the a truth from beyond this world. It’s all because of what? Laziness? A guy wants to know why but because he doesn’t have the means to find out himself, he will create an answer and truly believe in that fabrication because his mind craves a solution, and simply making one up is easier than constantly being overwhelmed with the impossibility of it all.
looking at things objectively and the meaning of life pt. 2
did it work? did you get the answer you were looking for? me neither. and this is a problem. i don't know about you (or maybe i do, was that you on craigslist?), but i really, truly believe, that none of us know why, that man has never known why and we probably will never know why. what do you believe?(you can have your cell phone back now). do you believe that mankind is destined not simply to be, but that he has a job description in his destiny as well?(in this economy? fuck!!). it's strange premise, but the concept of "why?" has bugged me (and mankind or whatever) for a long time.
so we can't answer this question without outside sources, that much is apparent, now we need to figure out how to most objectively choose our sources (mla or apa or lsd). fortunately in this day and age we (the white, upper-middle class, lazy, over priveledged me anyway) have access to a huge expanse of information from books to the internet to word of mouth and everything else. we are extremely lucky to have the wealth of information we do and (like we usually do) we completely take it for granted. but the trick is, how do you determine what is legitimate and what is questionable material for compiling results? how would you think, beyond any amount of research, backlogging or fact checking, should you determine the most appropriate place to start your search.
If it was me? I would start rationally. we know that the sky is blue, but we also rationally infer through science (get out the torches and the pitchforks) that the word blue is a construct that we have created to define what we see. When you realize language is simply man’s attempt (one of many) to more clearly define all things, then words also take on associative, correlative and sometimes even personal meanings. Unfortunately, this is the bittersweet nature of language and literature, it is susceptible to everything that influences the person or society that creates it. Thus society and language begin to fuel one another, literature inspires someone and they write or say something that inspires another, and so on (wow I really seem to like tangents, anyway moving on).
My point is (finally) that all information that has been assimilated from and into society since the dawn of human time has been tainted, in a way and degree that makes it impossible to reasonably and rationally determine any conclusion about the reason to human existence. That being said, are you starting to panic? Is there still something within you holding out that there must be some eternal or divine something (thingamagod) that has created it all, and it wasn’t just for the hell of it?(pun fucking intended). I say great, you have strong convictions, but right now you’re saying that on faith and faith alone do you believe that it was meant to be (which means you may also believe that through divine action the bible or any text, but just the one for the religion you worship, was written by god and is therefore untainted by man’s half-baked ponderings). And seriously, if that’s enough for you then that’s awesome, have a fulfilling life i guess. But for me it isn’t enough.
so we can't answer this question without outside sources, that much is apparent, now we need to figure out how to most objectively choose our sources (mla or apa or lsd). fortunately in this day and age we (the white, upper-middle class, lazy, over priveledged me anyway) have access to a huge expanse of information from books to the internet to word of mouth and everything else. we are extremely lucky to have the wealth of information we do and (like we usually do) we completely take it for granted. but the trick is, how do you determine what is legitimate and what is questionable material for compiling results? how would you think, beyond any amount of research, backlogging or fact checking, should you determine the most appropriate place to start your search.
If it was me? I would start rationally. we know that the sky is blue, but we also rationally infer through science (get out the torches and the pitchforks) that the word blue is a construct that we have created to define what we see. When you realize language is simply man’s attempt (one of many) to more clearly define all things, then words also take on associative, correlative and sometimes even personal meanings. Unfortunately, this is the bittersweet nature of language and literature, it is susceptible to everything that influences the person or society that creates it. Thus society and language begin to fuel one another, literature inspires someone and they write or say something that inspires another, and so on (wow I really seem to like tangents, anyway moving on).
My point is (finally) that all information that has been assimilated from and into society since the dawn of human time has been tainted, in a way and degree that makes it impossible to reasonably and rationally determine any conclusion about the reason to human existence. That being said, are you starting to panic? Is there still something within you holding out that there must be some eternal or divine something (thingamagod) that has created it all, and it wasn’t just for the hell of it?(pun fucking intended). I say great, you have strong convictions, but right now you’re saying that on faith and faith alone do you believe that it was meant to be (which means you may also believe that through divine action the bible or any text, but just the one for the religion you worship, was written by god and is therefore untainted by man’s half-baked ponderings). And seriously, if that’s enough for you then that’s awesome, have a fulfilling life i guess. But for me it isn’t enough.
looking at things objectively and the meaning of life pt. 1
how does one look at the concepts of goodness, religion, morality, existence, mortality, badness, belief, self and all that is in between from an objective standpoint?
every single person that has ever existed has looked down on the earth and up at the sky and asked: why? this is what makes us humans. as far as we know (get used to this phrase), beyond a reasonably scientific doubt, we are the only creatures to grapple with this seemingly unanswerable question, among others (also, get used to quotation marks with my words in them). these questions have eluded every great mind since the dawn of recorded history (have i built it up enough yet?), and is the very reason RELIGION exists (and is exiting, but more on that later). sadly it is also the cause of countless murders, civilization crippling doctrine, societally oppressive (and corrupt) leadership and santa's naughty list. it is also the inspiration for beautiful feats of architecture, many chief pinnacles of human ingenuity, countless acts of good and a large portion of existing literature. needless to say it is, as far as we know, in every persons life in some way, shape or form.
so again, how do we look at our own existence from a standpoint that hasn't already been skewed in any way? one would think you could simply shed all prior learned material on the subject, abandon everything and start from the ground up. the question you should ask yourself is: how would i, a puny mortal, search for the answers to all life's questions, to THE question without any sort of help? for starters, imagine that you have never heard anyone say anything about, well, everything (cell phones and twitter accounts are banished). it is important to realize that in doing this, you shouldn't be able to think of anything. this is good. now, completely free from t.v., facebook, newspapers, internet, other people and the very thoughts that were ingrained into your being since you were born (the very fiber of your existing morality) ask yourself: why are we here?
every single person that has ever existed has looked down on the earth and up at the sky and asked: why? this is what makes us humans. as far as we know (get used to this phrase), beyond a reasonably scientific doubt, we are the only creatures to grapple with this seemingly unanswerable question, among others (also, get used to quotation marks with my words in them). these questions have eluded every great mind since the dawn of recorded history (have i built it up enough yet?), and is the very reason RELIGION exists (and is exiting, but more on that later). sadly it is also the cause of countless murders, civilization crippling doctrine, societally oppressive (and corrupt) leadership and santa's naughty list. it is also the inspiration for beautiful feats of architecture, many chief pinnacles of human ingenuity, countless acts of good and a large portion of existing literature. needless to say it is, as far as we know, in every persons life in some way, shape or form.
so again, how do we look at our own existence from a standpoint that hasn't already been skewed in any way? one would think you could simply shed all prior learned material on the subject, abandon everything and start from the ground up. the question you should ask yourself is: how would i, a puny mortal, search for the answers to all life's questions, to THE question without any sort of help? for starters, imagine that you have never heard anyone say anything about, well, everything (cell phones and twitter accounts are banished). it is important to realize that in doing this, you shouldn't be able to think of anything. this is good. now, completely free from t.v., facebook, newspapers, internet, other people and the very thoughts that were ingrained into your being since you were born (the very fiber of your existing morality) ask yourself: why are we here?
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